Oh yeah, and I am a Christian. It has always been within me, no idea how as neither parents practised.
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Hi sadgirlfriend,
I know know why a dragon fly repeatedly flew past me whilst sitting in the park. Thanks
Hi @Walan , sorry its taken so long to get back. I don’t know anything specific bookwise as I have not really bought books on this subject, I can tell you my journey and I apologise up front as i tend to ramble!
Paganism predates all religions, many of the major religions have pinched a lot from the pagans, particularly celebrations.
As we do even now, people have to look for answers and back in the day, reverence, worship or just some belief would have been based on the natural world, there wasn’t much else! obviously there were no books, publications,tv or social media, information was handed down the generations by word of mouth, the biggest elements to this was the cycle of life, ie. born, live and die, this could be seen in everything that pagan people would have come into contact with, the natural world, everything has this cycle of life, from plants, trees, the birds, animals to the day and night, sun and moon. The sun would arise “born” in the morning and set “die” at night, ok we now have the information that this is not strictly the case but the principle applies, one day, even the sun will die. As things progressed the cycle of life is applied to the seasons, we have spring, where everything starts life, progresses through summer, “ages” in autumn and dies in winter only to start all over again next spring!
Because of these recognisable cycles, the events would be celebrated, we still do today, birth, life and even death, we still mark it even if not celebrated as such, in the modern world, we may well “celebrate” the persons life upon death and well we should.
Pagan people would celebrate a death as they knew that new life would begin again, seedlings, babies be they birds, animals or human! It would be natural to think that the spirit of life would pass from the old life into the new life, some believed in reincarnation but not necessarily as the old life form, some believed that the spirits would exist in another plane and could be contacted at certain times:
Explanation.
Samhain is the Celtic New Year, October 31st/November !st, summer has ended, the harvest is in, winter follows, Celtic pagans would prepare food for the loved ones who have passed, it is also the time when the veil between our world and the spirit world is at its thinnest and contact with the loved ones spirits can be made.
Hijacked by other religions and now known as All Hallows, All saints day and the horror of horrors Halloween!
Celtic paganism is what I have chosen as my path, I have always had a deep love of the natural world, since I was a kid, I realised later on, I also have a more spiritual connection that at first I could not understand so i started investigating and it was clear to me that Paganism had a lot of the answers but there are many different paths especially with the advent of neopaganism - modern paganism and these messed with my thinking, they were not right for me, there are too many to discuss here but you can find a lot of information on the internet.
Pagans, do NOT worship the devil, do NOT practice evil or black magic and do no harm to others, we DO revere nature and DO believe in spirits returning to the natural world.
There are many pagans who belong to certain organisations and prefer a more structured experience, all of these are relatively modern, for the rest of us, we are “lone” pagans who follow their own beliefs. I have had a lot of contentment from finally finding something I actually relate to, in times of pain like now ( I lost my wife just over 4 months ago) I do get comfort from my “beliefs”
Now don’t get me started on the Gaia theory, told you I rambled!!
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@swift My turn to apolplogise for the the tardy response and to say thanks for a very eloquent and comprehensive explanation of your spiritual beliefs. I’ve always found the transpositions of celebrations marking events from Pagan to Christian fascinating and enjoy the writings of people such as Joseph Campbell who make arguments for an overarching unity in the mythology of humanity. i guess I was interested in what you were saying about Paganism as, as you point out, there’s little to no written evidence about meaning and practice, instead we really on communal cultural events that appear self evident in their meaning but contain direct connections to these half remembered ceremonies through the symbols and rituals involved.
I was particularly interested in you having devised a Pagan funeral for both your wife and son. Please be reassured this is not the opening of a debate on the validity of these, I’m just curious as to how you approached this given that there’s no reliable record of how these would have been carried out. For me, with my very limited and basic understanding of paganism, it would be a case of “Where do i start?!”.
I’m asking as my late wife and I had a very deep love of nature and being in it. We live in Northumberland with its multitude of pagan relics imprinted across the land. She asked for her ashes to be scattered in various remote and beautiful places which i have begun to do and would like to perhaps bring some of the aspects that you describe into the ad hoc and developing ceremony that I employ. Would you be willing to describe in a bit more detail the funeral ceremonies that you devised?
Hi Walan, usual apology, I will get back properly but need to put things on paper first, so bear with me!
Possibly by private message, I will see if it will be of interest first to others but will let you know.
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It would be of interest to me as well Swift.
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My first post here was exploring other peoples take on spirituality, I then expanded on my beliefs being basically Pagan, this post is in response to @Walan and @iamposeygirl and I was tempted to go down the private message route but there may be others interested so thought I would just post:
I have put this together to try and explain what I was trying to achieve as a service for 1st my son who died 20 years ago and recently for my wife who died in March this year.
We have always been a nature orientated family, ever since I was a child, nature and the natural world were a major part of my life, I met my wife when she was 16 and I was 19, she was already happy with nature, pets etc etc and this must have been passed on to our children! My wife and I spent most of our working life also working together in our 3 various “businesses” these were East Anglian Topsoil and Compost Co. Drylands Nursery and lastly Worms Direct, you get the picture? We were lucky to be able to work from a 5 acre piece of land that I first rented and then acquired, out in the sticks and surrounded by nature, we eventually built our small house 6 years ago and retired 2 years ago, last business now gone, we encouraged nature to take over and there is a ton of it!
From the very beginning this place has been my sanctuary and sanity and luckily my wife joined me on this, it also developed what I can only refer to as spiritually, I don’t really know why or how it just did, as this progressed I tried to understand, slowly I realised that these feelings must be more pagan based, the problem was that there are many “branches” of paganism and virtually all had some aspects that did not resonate with me, this is not uncommon but you can be a free individual pagan that isn’t a paid up member of any particular following, I am not one to be an active member of this or that congregation, coven, meet up group or whatever, so being able to follow my own path suited me and I don’t have to participate or take part and I don’t have to accept aspects that I don’t feel comfortable with.
Dee, my wife was sympathetic to my thoughts and when our son died we tried to find a “service” that suited us as a family, we were also a bit restricted as it had to fit in with the typical crematorium “rules” ie 45 minutes, usual service format etc. we did not have experience of this, you are sort of steered in to the traditional format.
There was not much information around at the time, there was some on Pagan funerals based on being outside in some wood glade, nice idea but not practical when you are grieving, still exploring what to do and time limited, basically we used the format of the traditional humanist or even Christian service, found Pagan prayers etc and adapted it to our own thinking, the main aspects that were adopted was calling on the 4 elements at the beginning and end of the service, along with pagan prayers and poems, the cycle of life and playing music that my son liked.
Pagans (even when they don’t know they are!) often relate to a creature, in my sons case it was the wolf, he used to dream of being a wolf, so the wolf figured prominently in his service.
When my wife died, there is now a lot more information available and I was able to find a suitable services that I could adapt and personalise, the following links are:
Again, some words and phrases were changed to fit in with our own feelings and beliefs.
My wifes creature is the Hare so the hare was prominent in her funeral.
We also had friends and relatives who wanted to contribute there own words or poems
It makes little difference what your beliefs are, at the start of this journey, losing a loved one is horrible, we all know the feelings of despair, pain and disbelief and anguish, that there is no hope for the future, no light at the end of tunnel.
My beliefs, the beautiful place I live, created by myself and my wife, the belief that my wifes spirit, along with mine, have always been part of this place, that her spirit is now present within the nature that I am surrounded by and that one day my spirit will also be part of this, along with my wife and my son have been a huge comfort to me, it really saddens me to read on the forum of people who seem to have no comfort from any source, I wish I could share some.
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Thank you Swift. I was reminded yesterday that I am surrounded by living memories of my John. I was not one to like conventional material gifts or cut flowers even for occassions. So John over the years bought me many a tree and shrub. They populate our previous 2 homes, and our little paradise here by the river has many a sapling that have started their journeys and are reaching their way towards the skies. My hope is that they will be a permanent fixture of “us”, provide shade, habitat for the creatures that surround us. Living on beyond either John or me. So yes, he is here, his blood is literally in the soil, his spirit in the river that flows by, and the cardinal that made an appearance whilst he was passing, and has taken up residence nearby. Thank you for the reminder that nature has always been my solace, a reminder of the cycle of life and the infinity of our spirits.
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Thank you Swift, I have found your words so interesting and uplifting.
@iamposeygirl I think you have to look for the positives, after my wifes death in March I wasn’t sure that I could do this, at first it was almost impossible to stay with so much to remind me of what I had lost, I slowly realised yes My wife was no longer with me physically but I still felt we had still got everything we had created together, I wasn’t going to miss the things we had planned to do, because we had agreed that our retirement would be as it came, (we retired late anyway) we didn’t have the need to travel, go on holidays, corny but we felt we had it all here and I am trying to continue with that, not plan the future but get through today.
I am learning to cope better but I am posting this because this afternoon has not been good,the realisation that you are on your own can over write everything and reduce you to tears yet again.
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Thinking of you Swift and virtual hugs. The abyss days are really hard. The peaks and valleys. (not that there has been a peak, but level ground at this point is what I aspire to). The loneliness. Internalising the reality. You are not alone.
Thanks iamposeygirl, its just coming up to 5 months now, the last couple of weeks have seen the desperation lessen, my feelings have not changed but as often said you learn to cope, its almost as if where your whole head space was filled with the raw emotions and pain that accompany the grief leaving no room for anything else, 24 hours a day, have imperceptibly allowed other thoughts and thinking to reside with them, jobs that you have had to do, have had to think about are not blotted out by the pain and hurt to the same extent, however, as I found today, I was having a reasonable day, getting things done, at relative ease with my thoughts about my wife and circumstances and then quite suddenly in the afternoon, the tears arrive, its almost as if it is payback for the easier morning, maybe it is.
I do know that without my beliefs, I don’t know how I could have dealt with this.
Take care.
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I’m so sorry for your loss @ swift. You describe your feelings so well and sound like you had a beautiful relationship. Your posts, I’m sure, will help others like me put into words how they feel - it’s so indescribably painful sometimes. It is 6 months since I lost my partner and in some ways I feel I’m waking up to reality from the shock of his passing. This particular post describes exactly how I feel with times when I can get on with things and then out of nowhere the tears fall and the sadness and grief of knowing that he has gone. It comes in waves. Your spiritual beliefs are very interesting, thanks for sharing them - keep well and take care
Thanks Anastasia, got up this morning in a reasonable frame of mind but it has deteriorated, I have turned to my usual distractions of things that have to be done, feed the cat, ducks, tortoise etc. I have had one or two customers today, a pretty “normal” day as such and this may be the problem, today is turning into a very emotional day, I accept, I think that my wife is not here, I do believe her spirit is with me but I really miss her and the tears arrive, as you said it just arrives out of nowhere.
Swift,
I am in the early days compared to yourself but each day from nowhere the tears come in wave after wave then the disappear and return again following any reminder that she has gone.
Don’t really know how to stop this, don’t even know if I want to.
All I want is her back and I know this also cannot happen.
I’m not in control and just want the pain to reduce not stop as at that stage I will have lost the battle.
Steve, I am really sorry you are going through this, I don’t know you but I know what you are going through as all do on here, it is heartbreaking to read posts such as yours because it is distressing that we go through this.
The first days, weeks, months and sometimes even years are just unbelievable, some adjust earlier than others but you cannot predict a time line on this, like you I was distraught, I had times when the pain seemed out of control, there was no future, no point and I am sure there are many here who will admit to thinking about ending it all, I did, but I have an older daughter and I could not inflict that extra pain on her, I also know that my wife would have been as mad as hell!
The reason I am giving you my story is that I hope you can see parts that will help you, I am fortunate that I have a really good friend, having lost his wife, daughter and son had been through more than most of us, he was there for me when I was losing the plot, my daughter, bless her was very supportive although she was also grieving, she is single and I don’t think she understands it from our perspective, the other person who has been a great support was my wifes favourite brother (out of 6)… so first is try and get support from friends or relatives who can empathise with you, there may be others who have the best intentions but can be more of a hindrance than help, don’t be afraid to call on them when you can’t see your way forward. My friend told me, one hour, one day at a time, do not make decisions, ones where you have no choice try and think through very carefully, you could regret your decision in the future, in the very early days don’t try and plan the days ahead, just get through the one you are in, people often ask how are you managing, his answer is (and mine) I get up, I go to bed, if I am lucky I might eat in between. The waves of emotion, utter disbelief, pain, loss, loneliness and distress will keep visiting, as time goes on, almost imperceptibly , it gets a little less, a little less raw, you may well then feel guilty because you feel you shouldn’t be feeling a little bit better!
I found when these waves come crashing in it helped me by writing it all down, getting it onto paper sort of sorts the swirling turmoil going on in your head, I also realised I was constantly ruminating on the same things time and time again, it was almost as if I was either punishing myself or making myself feel worse because I felt I should be, if you find yourself doing this remember it is only making things worse and doesn’t help.
Plenty of rubbish tv, I guess like most people you may look at books etc on bereavement, I did and I found one that I felt was a real help, its on Amazon and is called “It’s ok that you are not ok” by Megan Devine, I then found this forum that has been a great source of comfort but it can also cause a lot of sadness and sometimes I feel I need to be away from it for a while or you can spend too long immersed in the really distressing situations that others are going through.
At first I didn’t want to spend my time at home alone so I escaped to my daughters but then I felt I needed to be at home and generally I am happier at home than anywhere else, at first it concerned me that I might become a hermit (always preferred to be on my own) but my good friend who is also a “hermit” said there is nothing wrong with being a hermit as long as you are a happy hermit. I think I am happier with this because, as per my previous posts, I do feel that my wife is still here with me.
As time goes on you do not forget, your feelings are still the same but you do adapt, you do learn to cope and things become a little easier and you can think of the one you have lost with a calmer love than just distress.
There is a very good post by Vancouver under “I told you I would look after you”
I hope this may be of a little help but please feel free to get back and keep posting on here - it really does help.
Take care, look after yourself and allow time to move forward.
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Swift,
Thanks for your kind response I will take onboard the advice offered, and I think you are correct I may spend some time away from this forum. And just try to calm myself down.
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@Steve123 Re the forum, I have found it of tremendous help so don’t be afraid to drop in, I have found that in your darkest moments it can be a real help to post, get it out in the open and others will come forward with advice, help and comfort, I have also found that when you are just going through a sad period, maybe a bit weepy that reading through all the sad posts can actually add to your down moment, that is just me, it will be completely different for others!
I have found the same with this site - sometimes its great being among those who you know just get what youre going through. But after a while, when you see more and more people joining and sharing often heartrending stories, i feel so helpless by the never ending stream of loss and i find myself at a loss what to say! You can walk around a shopping centre and everyone looks relatively “together” outwardly, yet there must be so many who behind the outer appearance are dealing with the loss of a loved one 
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