Dear Helen , I always contact Jackie through private message not telephone . Think is, it’s called an Angel Board, Andy our will have to be there to ask Sam questions. And hopefully like Dawn came through and answered everyone . It’s a beautiful exsperiance. And you will come away feeling on cloud 9 . Eastbourne is lovely and we stay on the front in the View hotel which is lovely. You probably will not get in for months anyway as she is booked up . Let me know if you are interested . And I can set it up for you . We are seeing her in a couple of weeks Maddie xxx
Dear Samsmum Helen
Thank you for ur kind words. I try to keep the hope that they will see him for who he is as I am sure his court mandated therapy for domestic violence and group therapy for being a sex offender wont change what he is. You have all given me so much support and acceptance, I wish I had the courage to share years ago. But I guess u r only ready when u r ready. It’s even more remarkable as we r all experiencing a dreadful loss. Thank you so much Helen. Maybe u could share ur story with me when u r ready.
Love and hugs
Pauline x
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Hi all
Pauline I read your post, it was an extremely difficult read, how you are still standing is beyond me. As if loosing a child isn’t bad enough, you have had so much to deal with. Mainly caused by other people. The old saying comes to mind , you can pick your friends but you can’t pick your family.
Nell2. I couldn’t agree more. A tragic loss is pretty much capable of destroying any family. The people all around you react in ways you would never have imagined.
Trying to negotiate the landscape after suffering a great loss is an absolute minefield. It takes you all your energy just trying to find your own feet, running parallel with all of that is people around you bitching and assuming and pressurizing you.
It’s taken me a long time to get to the place I’m at in my mind. I try my best to not let other people upset me ( easier said than done). I seriously don’t have a single friend from before my boy died. But I’ve got past letting it bother me anymore. Loosing a child does things to you. Things that people who haven’t lost a child will never begin to understand. But that’s not their fault, it just makes it worse when they try passing on pearls of wisdom about a subject they no nothing about.
I seriously think we get to a place where we keep our grief locked up in a little box at the back of our mind. I’ve read enough on these sites that tells me that when you suffer a major loss such as a child you will greave for the rest of your life. You just get used to carrying it round with you for evermore and once you have got a few years under your belt regardless of how well you are coping grief will catch you by surprise and bite you every so often just to let you know that it’s still there. Some days it destroys me missing my boy,. Other days I will talk to him all the time and although he’s invisible I take him everywhere with me. Thinking he’s gone and doesn’t exist anymore isn’t an option for me.
I think the thing that is so hard to bare is we have no alternative, we can’t change what happened and we have to spend the rest of our lives missing them. What I would give to not have to carry this with me. For me it is definitely a case of before and after. Its definitely changed me.
Ok thanks for listening
Take care
Jim
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Dear Jim and all friends, there have been some difficult reads over the last few days on our site and I love how we support each other here. I have written before of how my sister cut contact with me because of how we organised Gemma’s service and how nasty she was to me on the day. I wrote her a letter explaining how I felt and one thing that struck me was thinking ‘if you tried to make me feel worse on that day then you failed. Because nothing could have made me feel worse after burying my beloved girl’. I think this applies to all of us when people are unkind, unthinking or downright cruel. These people fail in what they are trying to do to us. So in one way we win, as they can’t bring us down.
I never sent the letter but it was cathartic to write it. xxx
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Hi Jim10
That is very true. I have a small chosen family that r my friends. I would not have made it thru these last 10 yrs without them. Thank u so much x
Nell2
I agree with all u say. It’s so hard to think of my life without 1 child and then realised I had none. My parents and sisters made the funeral a disaster of epic proportions with their disapproval. I felt they had made the worst day of my life even worse but reading what u say. They didn’t, there was nothing that could make the day of the funeral worse. Their behaviour was appalling and I have never spoke to them since. Equally they have never tried to contact me. Not even when 1 of my sisters husbands died. I found out years later. I am happy with not having contact with them but I will always miss my children and grandchildren.
I am so sorry u lost ur son and also had a minefield to endure. I agree with u that the grief and desolation is with u forever but I also keep my son in the present with me. I celebrate his birthday with going to his fave restaurant or cooking his fave meal. I got a ring made with his ashes in so he is physically with me also. I agree we can’t change what happened we just have to endure it for the rest of our lives. I am so thankful to have found this community and support.
Love and hugs to all
Pauline x
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My sister, whomI love was as unhelpful as she could be at first. She turned up as late as possible the night before the funeral and immediately told me she hadn’t come to help. After the funeral she sent me an absolutely vile text and totally annihilated me emotionally. I suspect that was dictated by her husband, but I can’t be sure. We are now back in contact and just talk about the weather or anything unimportant. I suggested that it would do us good to have a conversation about what went wrong but she immediately said she won’t be talking about that. I feel like she sent that nasty message and now takes no responsibility and that leaves me unable to let it go. She says she only thinks about ‘nice’ things now. She wants to keep in touch but it’s all on her terms, not mine. I’m going along with the texts about nothing important because I still love her, she says she loves me, but it’s only up to the point where I engage in this pretence that nothing has happened, those are her rules. I’m keeping in touch so that there is some slight chance of things improving. It’s the triumph of hope over experience. Losing a child wrecks many families and there are some people I am glad aren’t in touch as they just create mischief and add to the misery. I can accept that, but my sister is a big loss to me. I am struggling to accept it. Job in progress. Sending you hugs and care xxx
Your text is painful to read and I feel terrible for you that you should have to go through this, Nell. I cannot understand how your sister could do such a terrible thing to you. Yes, she has lost a niece, and as painful as that may be, in pales in comparison to the loss of one’s child. She should have supported you / be supporting you, and if she wants to keep a relationship with you, if she loves you as a sister, then this must stop. This is pure selfishness on her part. She has no right to dictate what your relationship should be like and what subjects may or may not be discussed. She is sabotaging your grief for your daughter’s loss.
Why don’t you write to her - that is often easier than speaking face to face - and really tell her about your grief and how her attitude has hurt you, how it has made / is making you feel? Don’t use an accusing tone, but simply put your feelings on the table. If she doesn’t react to that, if she cannot acknowledge how hurtful her actions have been, then sorry, sister or not, you need to keep her out of your life. Her presence otherwise is far too toxic and will continue to make your grieving even more difficult.
Big virtual hugs coming your way! 
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Nell2
I am so sorry u have to deal with this awful situation. My answer would be if she wants to claim this awful grief then it should have happened to her. Yes she lost her niece but it was ur daughter. There r a lot of people that want to claim they r struggling the most with the loss of a family member. When it is ur child u come first, then, now and always. If u can continue the relationship with polite chit chat, do that but if it is hurting u try saying something like u need to take a break from the relationship as u r not coping and will be in touch when u r in a better place.
Sending u lots of strength, love and hugs
Pauline x
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I can’t write to her as her husband reads her texts and emails and a letter would probably be passed straight to him. He calls all the shots and there is no way she’s prepared to stand up to him. She has told me that I should know they have a shared account and I should know he’s reading her emails. When I said why not have her own email account she says she likes it how it is. She does text me regularly so I think she wants to stay in touch. As things stand I don’t think I’m likely to see her again, as her husband wouldn’t like it. I have decided, even if she offers for me to stay, I’m not going to her home again to witness her husbands sulks and petulance over every tiny thing. Sadly, she’s learned she must be available for him at all times and if not, she suffers. He can sulk for days if someone dares to say they don’t agree with him, about anything. Seems like his word is her law. I don’t even know what she really thinks as she just wants a quiet life without making any waves. I can see why too. I think I would be wisest just to expect nothing from her, drop any expectations of things changing. She is the only relative I have aside from my grandkids so it’s saddens me but I’m keeping the door open with very little chance it will go anywhere. Both of us are in our sixties and As we all know anyone can die unexpectedly so I don’t want us to be totally estranged. My biggest challenge as regards my sister is learning to try to accept what I can’t change and avoiding making a bad situation worse. Right now I’d like to tell her husband what a selfish shit he is but that would end badly and she would pay the price. He’s got all the power, he calls the shots. She’s put up with it for many years and now just goes along with his wishes. His behaviour is nothing new and has escalated since my daughter died, or maybe I didn’t realise how ultra controlling he is. I’m in no doubt now tho! Xxxx
Having a really bad day, we are burying some of my daughters ashes today! I am broken, don’t want to go, as again it means its real. My dear friend who lost her son in June sent me this, bless her, she knows our pain 
If we could have a lifetime wish, a dream that would come true, we’d pray to God with all our hearts for yesterday with you.
1000 words can’t bring you back and we know because we’ve tried, and neither will 1 million tears, we know because we’ve cried.
You left behind broken hearts and happy memories too, we never wanted memories we only wanted you.
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Thanks Pauline and you are right. I would have been able to see that for myself if I wasn’t so lacking in confidence after all that happened to my daughter. It goes along with what we said the other day about remembering we count too. Sadly, after donkeys years of him getting his own way he is certain that he is always right and no one challenges him. He’s got the result he wanted and is still feeling that he’s hard done by. It seems like the two of them have reached a decision (probably unspoken) to freeze out anybody who shows any sign of emotion or any needs that will affect their rigid routine. She seems frozen emotionally and that’s how she gets by. It’s another loss for me. I’m really trying to just let them go and expect nothing. I love her tho and she’s never treated me like this before. He is absolutely draining to live with and sees everyone as out to get him and a threat. I can’t fix any of his behaviour it’s who he is now. I did expect better from my sister but it feels like she’s turned into a mirror of him. Maybe self preservation as she sees it. Who knows what she thinks anymore, I don’t. I am also on self preservation too now, and we seem locked in communicating by trivia and steering well clear of the elephant in the room, my daughters death and the awful aftermath. Our relationship is another casualty of it all. I’d like to have a kind and thoughtful sharing of what’s gone wrong, but I can’t make her do that and she is very clear that she’s not talking about it. She may need me one day and I won’t turn her away but until then I can’t see anything changing. If she was still being horrid I would stop even texting, but she’s fine as long as we don’t talk about anything meaningful. Xxx
Hi Nell2
The way u describe ur sisters husband I would consider to be a case of domestic abuse and coersive control. I am sorry to say that so bluntly. Ur sister could be very damaged as a result of his years of abuse. Abuse doesn’t have to be physical. The psychological abuse is unseen by most but u describe them sharing email, hints reading letters etc, distancing ur sister from her family are all classic signs. So she may very well need u at some stage. Perhaps her extreme reaction to ur daughter’s death was her only outlet for the emotional trauma her husband has been causing her. I really hope this is not the case but u can now look at any interactions u have with ur sister and/or her husband and see if this could be the case.
Love and hugs
Pauline x
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You are absolutely right, it’s coercive control. Sad thing is anyone who puts up with it long enough forgets who they are. The longer the abuser gets their way the more they are convinced they are right and the more demanding they become. I can see how it happens over time, little by little she’s given in on everything and he’s pushed everyone away who cares about her. Because it’s coercive it’s done sneakily and no one challenges him. It hasn’t made him happy tho, he’s always miserable and needs lots of reassurance from my sister who often talks to him like he’s a toddler. My anger about it all doesn’t help me tho. I want to get on with the big issue of grieving my daughter. I’m gonna do better when I accept that there’s very little hope of a proper reconciliation, so for my self preservation I would be wise to let it go. I’m trying xxx
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Nell2
It is impossibly hard. I know from personal experience. If the situation is stopping u from grieving and having any sense of peace u have no choice but to shut it down. It is heartbreaking but u need to take care of yourself.
Much love
Pauline x
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I’m not talking to her husband at all. He was vile to me when my daughter died. I don’t refer to him in texts and when she talks about him I don’t respond. My only contact is texts to my sister. I know he doesn’t like me phoning her and invariably would interrupt and require something doing right then, so she ends the call. She seems not to remember some of the nastier things he’s said and done over the years, she was there and saw and heard him. I’ve seen him bullying her over and over but she just doesn’t choose to admit he’s anything but a kind and caring guy. I suspect it’s too late for her. She told me she just keeps her thoughts in her head and she won’t be sharing them with anyone. She’s in too deep to acknowledge alls not good. Even to herself. That all being true I have to give up any hope. I’m sad, but worse has happened like losing my girl. Xx
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Hi Nell2
Someone who has been abused to that level will take a lot to leave that relationship. U can’t make that ur problem. Yes u love her and worry about her. But u can’t have that in ur life. There r many of us here who have had similar experiences. Being self kind is not selfish. Just focus on u and how u feel. Ur daughter would not want u suffering like this.
Love and hugs
Pauline x
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Hi Maddie,
I would love to see her in the New Year I will have a chat with John and see when we can get down if you could ask her what dates she has got I would be really grateful.
xdxHelen
Hi Pauline,
My first marriage was dreadful, he was very spiteful and controlling. He used to say things like “no bloke would look at you you’re too ugly”, after 19 years you believe it. Then I wasn’t allowed to drive the car I had to walk to the supermarket like every other woman!. He was physically abusive but controlled with it to make sure you were in fear which I was but he would never mark my face in case anyone saw. Finally the landscaping business we had a woman who was a bookkeeper joined and she said to me I always get what I want, and she instigated an affair with him he told me to stay home and look after the children, but it was my way of escape, I got out with the children and went with absolutely nothing. I now have a husband who absolutely cherishes me and loves me to bits he kind and considerate and Sam absolutely adored him. My elder son told John at the funeral that John meant more to Sam than his own dad. He looked after Sam sorted out a flat for him and Mathilda when they came here from Sweden. Philip my ex is still about and with the woman he had the affair with, she looks just like I used to frightened, dressed dowdy because it will all be about him and the image he wants to portray and Im pretty certain he’s the same with her but she has no money herself and nowhere to go. So I consider myself lucky, I can’t be hurt anymore the 5 friends that I have and have had for the last 38 years all knew my ex but until after I had gone I never told them what he was like. Whenever he saw them and their husbands he was all smiles happy and totally different only Janice and Sally saw through him.
Love Helen
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Ok Helen . I will see what dates she has and let you know xx
Hi all
It’s 2 years today since my darling daughter tragically left us. The pain doesn’t get any easier, I’ve been crying since I woke up at 7. Words just can’t explain how I feel so only tears can express my love and the pain of the loss of my precious girl Kathryn.
Deborah 
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