Well said. If people keep taking offence when people are just trying to help, as Pattidot clearly was, then I can see a time when we are all too scared of offending people to write anything. That would be a tragedy. I understand that grieving people are sensitive. I am one myself, but I wouldn’t bite back at a comment that was trying to help and I would love to think others wouldn’t either.
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Hear hear ! Pattidot is the kindest, most compassionate person I have come across on here. Were she given the chance, I am sure she could have helped. She certainly helped me. But no. Offence was taken and this is the one thing I hate about this site. Sometimes, no-one would know we are all in the same boat.
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@Priscilla Please do something about this so a particular person can’t turn this into a them and us argument . Thank you
Thank you , makes me feel a little bit less alone x
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@Kay1 I hope so but please continue to post on the forum. There are a lot of people who are very kind. 
I hope that this thread is not closed by admin, it’s a valid topic and it gives the opportunity for everyone to share their personal experience in the hope that it helps. It’s only by sharing and appreciating that even if you don’t feel the response helps you, it just might help someone else that can make this forum really work 
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@SanWI agree but if someone tries to set one member against others it becomes toxic. All I wanted was to discuss the distress I am feeling. We don’t need to take sides against each other. How destructive is that? It’s becoming very personal and I think that’s wrong
I really value Johnswife and Pattidot. Both have helped me and also this thread helped me. Don’t know what to say.
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Here! Here!! I do agree with you. Even though everything on here is voluntary we still have a duty of care toward each other. It has to be accepted that we are all in a bit of a pickle. Very sensitive and upset. It’s obvious that when we are like that we will be a bit ‘touchy’. I doubt very much if any of us would deliberately set out to upset anyone. And if we did I am sure it would be regretted after. The point that what upsets one can be uplifting for another is valid. Let’s all pull together in this rotten boat we are all in. That way we can all make headway. Blessings to all. John.
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I am blocking this thread.
It started with a very real issue about how we deal with people we felt we that should be able to rely on but are drifting away.
I had thought it would have been supportive by sharing personal experiences of how we dealt with the pain and hopefully how we helped people drift back again.
It seems to have split into pitting one against the other.
By sharing stories we help each other. By expressing our own pain in a safe space we release it. When pain is released it gives space for solutions to float to the surface of our minds.
Our body wisdom knows deep down what we have to do, it knows when we are ready, we just need people to recognise us and support our efforts.
We need empathy not sympathy, there is a great difference.
We need back up to support, to help us to enfold at the pace we individually need.
We are drifting in the same ocean but not in the same boat.
Advice can be like a large boat offering a spare engine to a rowing boat and sinking the boat in the process.
This has turned unexpectedly quite nautical! 
The thought just popped in how our salty tears are healing, so cry.
John O’Donohue wrote a poem for his mother on the death of his father.
For Grief
“Sorrow will remain faithful to itself. More than you, it knows it way,
and find the right time to pull and pull the rope of grief
until that coiled hill of tears …”
The last part is about the healing
The book is To Bless the Space Between Us.
The poem can be found on the web, I am not allowed to copy.
The next poem For the InterimTim, gave me solace.
For those of us older ones who struggle, through circumstances to find new purpose may find it chimes with their feelings.
Sending love to you all in your struggles, off to other threads
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Dear Jonathan
I rather like the analogy of a “rotten boat”! This boat of ours is being buffeted on all sides at present…those of us on board are trying to come to terms with our own loss (recent or otherwise) and adapt as best our own circumstances dictate whilst the poor old boat is being tossed and turned by all that is going on in our world…the pandemic and all its knock on effects are demoralizing and devisive…for those who are vulnerable ( as we all are) our own doubts and fears are exacerbated and misunderstandings are probably inevitable. But everyone of us here is on this poor old boat because we were blessed to love and be loved and it is the remembrance of this love which unites all of us.
Love to everyone on this thread and across the whole site x
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Alicia I find it bewildering that when Priscilla suggested we carry on in a more positive manner and share tips on how to feel better it all went quiet. I wrote a story about what my Nan did and no one replied. But now there is an argument brewing again. Everyone has something to stay. I’m getting the feeling that actually people just love to argue.
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Hi ag. As always you have sent a lovely post. The analogy of a boat being tossed about on a rough sea is about right. Our little boat is being buffeted by very rough seas and we may feel all is lost, and may even feel like drowning is the best option. But any sailor knows that if we turn and head into the wind and ride out the storm we will eventually come to a safer place.
To carry the analogy further, there is that distant lighthouse blinking away in the distance. Telling us mariners that there are rocks ahead and that we need to steer around them. We have to keep control of our boat. Very difficult when the storm rages and we feel all is lost. But it is never so, even though we may be convinced it is. The hope of a landfall is always there. We can finish up on a sandy beach in the warm sunshine of love and hope. It’s what our loved ones would have wanted for us.
Thank you and sending love to you and Blessings.
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Jooles
You’re right and I’m sorry I didnt comment about the story of your nan. It made me laugh and I meant to say something but got distracted x
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The analogy of the boat being tossed on a rough sea reminds me of the reply from and old man regarding grief and waves. I’ve posted this before.
An old mans answer to a question - My friends just died I don’t know what to do?
"Alright, here goes. I’m old. What that means is that I’ve survived (so far) and a lot of people I’ve known and loved did not. I’ve lost friends, best friends, acquaintances, co-workers, grandparents, mom, relatives, teachers, mentors, students, neighbors, and a host of other folks. I have no children, and I can’t imagine the pain it must be to lose a child. But here’s my two cents.
I wish I could say you get used to people dying. I never did. I don’t want to. It tears a hole through me whenever somebody I love dies, no matter the circumstances. But I don’t want it to “not matter”. I don’t want it to be something that just passes. My scars are a testament to the love and the relationship that I had for and with that person. And if the scar is deep, so was the love. So be it. Scars are a testament to life. Scars are a testament that I can love deeply and live deeply and be cut, or even gouged, and that I can heal and continue to live and continue to love. And the scar tissue is stronger than the original flesh ever was. Scars are a testament to life. Scars are only ugly to people who can’t see.
As for grief, you’ll find it comes in waves. When the ship is first wrecked, you’re drowning, with wreckage all around you. Everything floating around you reminds you of the beauty and the magnificence of the ship that was, and is no more. And all you can do is float. You find some piece of the wreckage and you hang on for a while. Maybe it’s some physical thing. Maybe it’s a happy memory or a photograph. Maybe it’s a person who is also floating. For a while, all you can do is float. Stay alive.
In the beginning, the waves are 100 feet tall and crash over you without mercy. They come 10 seconds apart and don’t even give you time to catch your breath. All you can do is hang on and float. After a while, maybe weeks, maybe months, you’ll find the waves are still 100 feet tall, but they come further apart. When they come, they still crash all over you and wipe you out. But in between, you can breathe, you can function. You never know what’s going to trigger the grief. It might be a song, a picture, a street intersection, the smell of a cup of coffee. It can be just about anything…and the wave comes crashing. But in between waves, there is life.
Somewhere down the line, and it’s different for everybody, you find that the waves are only 80 feet tall. Or 50 feet tall. And while they still come, they come further apart. You can see them coming. An anniversary, a birthday, or Christmas, or landing at O’Hare. You can see it coming, for the most part, and prepare yourself. And when it washes over you, you know that somehow you will, again, come out the other side. Soaking wet, sputtering, still hanging on to some tiny piece of the wreckage, but you’ll come out.
Take it from an old guy. The waves never stop coming, and somehow you don’t really want them to. But you learn that you’ll survive them. And other waves will come. And you’ll survive them too. If you’re lucky, you’ll have lots of scars from lots of loves. And lots of shipwrecks".
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Well Jooles, you could be right. I have always found your posts uplifting even though you are still in grief. I think some people do get their kicks from arguing. But opinions often differ very much, and it can turn into an acrimonious situation which I am sure no one really wants. If we don’t all pull together we are lost, it’s as serious as that! We are all so vulnerable and hurting so much that often the slightest thing can upset us. Empathy is reaching out with a deep understanding that can only be had from experience.
Take care Jooles, your posts are very much appreciated. John.
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@Jooles45 I also laughed about your Nan. Unfortunately not everyone took on board the agreement to move on before I could reply. I just don’t understand why anyone would want to stir up ill feelings. I really hope it’s over now.
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@Daffy123 What wonderful words. I am gouged so deep I can almost see my broken heart. The waves are indeed 100 feet high and I wish I could drown. The thing is John taught me to swim at the ripe old age of 59 so I could go snorkelling with him. I won’t drown John will hold me up and I thank you for making me realise that.
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It’s fine. I honestly didn’t want people to comment on my own story I just hoped that people would continue with their own tips and stories to help everyone. I don’t mind if anyone responds to me. As I’m guilty too of not responding and replying “in my head”. It was a shame that the chance to move on as requested by John’s wife and Priscilla was ignored. Xx
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@Johnswife I loved snorkelling with my husband. We’d drive along in the warm sea just watching life underwater. It brings back so many memories. Hugs to you. Cxxx
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